#grandma Rhaenys

[batgirl-sadgirl]

A little Rhaenys moment based on the episode this week… honestly just me trying to deal with something I knew was gonna happen and somehow still destroyed me….

[backjustforberena]

EVE BEST as RHAENYS TARGARYEN in 1.08 “Lord of the Tides”

[daenysthedreamer101]

Mother's protection

Mothers of HOTD shielding their (grand) children

Grief/ Fury/Embrace

[visenyaism]

Does rhaenys like viserys or aegon more? What’s her relationship w viserys like? (In the Targaryen Lannister AU)

She’s mostly ambivalent about Aegon, mostly due to the empty vessel nature of his personality he does not care about much of anything. There’s some resentment there given that she’s older and occasionally actually reads books and gives a fuck about court politics but because Aegon is a boy he’s treated like the literal messiah by both their parents while she is kind of ignored by most of their relatives outside of her political utility. She wants to be queen though so she’s going with it. Viserys and his weird friend slash hostage Theon weird her out a little bit especially after their betrothal fell through when Aerys got deposed. She’s actually sweet on Ned Baratheon (Robert and Lyanna’s one son) but her mother would literally kill her if she ever found out about that.

[tbtgtr-incorrectquotes]

Well, it's more likely they were sat down, the problem is that being sat down by her grandparents (HOTD Corlys and Rhaenys wouldn't just do nothing) or her great-aunt and great-uncle wouldn't really help in developing values that Leonyra if she was there would approve of.

Also, HOTD Rhaenyra is absolutely a loving mother, so with daughters? She would be with them a lot, even if what she teach is not what the BGR parents would necessarily approve of.

Honestly, HOTD Rhaenyra would more likely spend more time with her children then Leonyra, because Leonyra is busy with politics while Rhaenyra is much more focused on her own desires.

Also, I don't see Rhaegel as so useful on that, he's still his own person, focused on his own stuff as well, and he would know it's not his business to meddle.

He would seem more like the older brother figure to the twins.

HOTD:

I think Rhaenyra and Laenor will get along better with Jo and Alys when they are older

I'm seeing this as the type of situation where your relationship with your parents gets better as you age and understand them better

Yes, pretty much.

Jocelyn and Alyssa are very different from BGR manners wise because boy oh boy did no one bother to really sit them down and teach them since Laenor and Rhaenyra were like okay it’s done now let’s lead our own lives. It wasn’t until Rhaegel showed that they actually paid attention to the girls.

So in reality the only options are get along when they’re older or not at all.

[grimesrot]

rhaenys and meleys you will be avenged!!!

[prest0-art]

Rhaenyras eldest boys as their dragons 🐉

Jacaerys as Vermax, Lucaerys as Arrax and Joffrey as Tyraxes

[starrynights23]

Prediction for HBO's Targaryen Conquest Show

Princess Meria Martell of Dorne (according to Fire and Blood)

How HBO will probably see as Princess Meria Martell of Dorne

[theirondragonrants]

Things I choose to be offended by

1. Sunfyre didn't spit out golden flames and I am SO MAD. The ruined the only green I liked.

2. Rhaenys and Meleys deal huge damage to Aegon and Sunfyre and basically lead to his injuries more than Vhagar does. And yes, show Red Queens did a lot of damage, BUT THE MELTING THE ARMOR INTO AEGON BIT IS SO POETIC, ESPECIALLY FOR BAELA'S ARC AGAINST SUNFYRE!!!! Already I'm offended that some fucking how that gigantic godzilla beast managed to sneak past Rhaenys and outfly Meleys to the drop of the cliff at rooks rest, BUT THEN YOU GO AND HAVE HER KILL MELEYS WITH A DECAPITATING CHOMP INSTEAD OF A DOGFIGHT IN THE AIR WHERE MELEYS GIVES IT HER ALL AND RHAENYS AND HER HIT THE GROUND AND PRESSUMABLY DIE TOGETHER IN A BLAZE!? LIKE!?

AND HOW THE HELL DID VHAGAR PICK UP ENOUGH SPEED TO FLY THAT HIGH UP THAT FAST!?. DID GRANDMA VHAGAR SOMEHOW MANAGE TO PUT NITROUS UP HER ASS AND FLY OUT TO THE SEA LIKE MELEYS DID AND THEN WHOOMP UP TO CATCH MELEYS NOISELESSLY AND FLY HER UP AT LIKE MACH 10!?

It's so minor, and it's so cool for the story that Aemond basically attempted regicide and fratricide and whatever but CMON MAN. I STAND IN ANGER AND ON BUSINESS FOR RHAENYS AND MELEYS

[kissingagrumpygiant]

People's obsession with dragons and their previous dragonriders like the nuclear bombs don't care who USED to hold the codes. Just let them go at it

[hauntingblue]

AGEON DOESN'T SPEAK VALYRIAN L!!! L!!! MASSIVE L!!! NOT THE KING!!!

[greydeath]

shireen having some form of prophetic dreams that r thanks to her like diluted targ blood (thanks great grandma rhaelle) is honestly ... one of my favourite things

[backjustforberena]

Baela is described as "fearless as her father", when rising to meet Sunfyre and Aegon... but there's only one person in Baela's life described as fearless on multiple occasions. Someone who also did not flee from facing Sunfyre:

Rhaenys, at six-and-ten, was a fearless young beauty...

Princess Rhaenys, five-and-fifty, her face lean and lined, her black hair streaked with white, yet fierce and fearless as she had been at two-and-twenty.

The Queen Who Never Was lived fearlessly...

[daenysthedreamer101]

HAPPY NAMEDAY TO RHAENYS TARGARYEN, THE QUEEN WHO SHOULD'VE BEEN! 🔥🐉👑

Also shout out to Meleys the Red Queen!

[moonyssmommyy]

Glad we all agree on Lagertha as Visenya (people on tiktok were MAD awhile back 😭)

𝐕𝐢𝐬𝐞𝐧𝐲𝐚 𝐓𝐚𝐫𝐠𝐚𝐫𝐲𝐞𝐧

ENTJ

Slytherin

Chaotic Evil

King of Swords

Virgo Sun, Scorpio Moon, Aries Rising

 The eldest of the three siblings, Visenya was described as callous and unforgiving. She grew up training alongside, Aegon. And because of this, she made a fearsome opponent on the battlefield as well as in the air. 

 Aegon wed Visenya out of duty, and there was no romantic love between them. However, there was respect - possibly even friendship, albeit distant. Their personalities were very similar. Both being introverted, assertive and logical. 

  It was a shock to everyone when Aegon took another wife, his youngest sister, Rhaenys. It was not said how the relationship between Visenya and Rhaenys was, only that they were the complete opposite of one another (and that Aegon favored Rhaenys). 

  Visenya bonded with Vhagar, large and battle-reared, who made any and every man tremble. It was with the help of the young Vhagar, that the realms were conquored and united. 

 Visenya wielded the Valyrian longsword, Dark Sister. It was one of the two ancestoral swords of House Targaryen (the other being Blackfyre). 

 She had one son with Aegon, who did not continue the Targaryen line, although tried he did. His name was Maegor the Cruel. 

 It was also rumoured that Visenya dabbled with poisions and dark sorceries. Some rumours claim that that is how Maegor was conceived; through dark magic. 

[synchodai]

I get this impression that House of the Dragon doesn't get that "named" heirs aren't really the norm in Westeros. If it were that easy for someone to just give everything to their favorite child, Randall Tarly wouldn't have needed to force Sam to go to the Wall and Tywin could have simply chosen Cersei over Tyrion as heir of Casterly Rock.

If we look at the history Westeros borrows from, the concept of "naming" heirs wasn't really a thing in medieval England. Landed gentry didn't have direct say over the order of succession until the Statute of Wills in 1540. Before then, land and subsequent titles could only be inherited through agnatic primogeniture.

Agnatic primogeniture prioritized the living, eldest, trueborn son. Claims can only be passed on patrilineally. This means that a grandaughter can inherit a claim of her grandfather's titles through her father, but a grandson cannot be given the same through his mother. However, if his mother finally does have land and titles under her own name (not under her father's), only then does her son and other children enter the line of succession.

The reason it was like this was because it kept land and titles under one family. Daughters are less preferred because when they are married, they become part of their husband's family — meaning that any titles they receive will be inherited through a new line. This wouldn't be an ideal situation because it gives two families claims to the titles. The more claimants there are, the more unstable the hold the owner has.

In other words, agnatic primogeniture was practiced for stability. Because back in the day, titles weren't just property or land. They came with governorship over a people, so a stable and predictable transfer of titles was necessary to avoid civil conflicts and questions of legitimacy.

A landed lord or lady wasn't given the right to designate heirs for a few reasons:

Most of them were vassals who oversaw the land in the name of someone higher up. It technically isn't even theirs to give away (see: feudal land tenure).

The wishes of a human being are less predictable than having a determined line of succession based on birth order. What if he becomes incapable of declaring an heir either through illness or disability? What if he's captured and a bad actor forces him to name this person heir under threat of violence?

People died unexpectedly all time. This was before germ theory and modern medicine — child mortality was extremely high. With no refrigeration technology, a single poor harvest could mean dying from starvation. Bandits, cutthroats, and raiders were a constant threat. They could not afford to rely on a person choosing a different heir every time the old heir drops dead, because the landed lord/lady could die just as suddenly.

Even 21st century families stab each other in the back over who gets grandma's house — so imagine having an uncertain line of succession in the middle ages over a life-defining lordship and without a modern-day court system to mediate.

Going back to HotD, whenever Targaryens did go against the established line of succession, they could only have done it by consolidating the support of their vassals. Only royalty seemed to have the power to bend agnatic primogeniture, but even then they were beholden to it.

When Jaehaerys I ascended the throne over Aerea, it was mainly because there were those who saw Maegor the Cruel's act of disinheriting Jaehaerys as null and void. This restored Jaehaerys place in the line of succession above Aerea.

And when Rhaenys was passed over for Baelon, Jaehaerys had to convene his lords and offer compelling reasons as to why — her young age, her lack of an heir, her Velaryon last name, etc. It wasn't a given that just because she was a woman that she was ineligible. If he was doing it purely out of misogyny, he still had to legally justify his misogyny in order to strip away her rights.

Even after consolidating support, the book mentions Jaehaerys I and Viserys I's respective hold on the crown was still weakened. Even though their claims were backed by reasons cosigned by a powerful majority, they still had to ensure the security of their rule through other means. There were people who doubted their right to rule, and those people had to be placated with gifts (by Viserys) or intimidated into submission (by Jaehaerys).

So we come to Viserys I who never gave his vassals a reason why Rhaenyra should supercede his three sons other than, "I said so." Had he convened with his lords and maybe made the argument that a first marriage takes precendence over a second one, then maybe he could have set a new precedent and gathered support.

But no, he didn't. He relied on the power of his own words and the lords' personal oaths — oaths that he didn't exactly plan how he would enforce posthumously.

And the Realm did not choose to adopt a different succession law after Jaehaerys's designation of Baelon in 92 AC or the Council of Harrenhal choosing Viserys on 101 AC. If those two events did change anything, it was that now women were exempt from the line of succession for the crown and only the crown. It did not set the precedence that monarchs could freely choose heirs. It did not upend the whole system; it only made a tweak, as most lawful policy-changes do, by carving out at an exception. It was a committee, not a revolution.

Before and after the Dance, no other monarch, lord, or lady "declared" an heir that went against agnatic primogeniture, save for Dornish who have cognatic (equal-gender) primogeniture instead. Ramsay had to get rid of Roose Bolton's living trueborn son AND be legitimized by the crown in order to be recognized as heir (only a crowned monarch can legitimize baseborn children which is another world-building pillar a lot of people miss). Randall basically had to force Sam to abdicate because he wanted his younger brother to inherit instead. And of course, Tywin despite his intense hatred of Tyrion is forced to acknowledge him as his heir.

The rigidity of the line of succession is a major and constant source of conflict in the series, so it baffles me that people really thought that characters could just freely choose their heirs. That's why we have a civil war. It wasn't a misunderstanding. It's the expected consequences of someone carelessly going against a foundational tenent of the society they inhabit.